Killing a Man Does Not Testify to National Greatness
By Robert Higgs • Monday May 2, 2011 11:30 AM PDT • 93 Comments
Among the many objectionable aspects of President Obama’s announcement that Osama bin Laden had been killed, one in particular sticks in my craw. He said that “today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people.”
First, I dislike the whole idea of “the greatness of our country.” Countries cannot be great. They are abstractions and, as such, they are incapable of acting for good or for evil. Individual residents of a country may be great, and many Americans are great, because, to borrow Forrest Gump’s construction, “greatness is as greatness does.”
The caretakers who comfort the sick and dying are often great. The priests and friends who revive the will to live in those who have lost hope are great. The entrepreneurs who establish successful businesses that better satisfy consumer demands for faster communication, safer travel, fresher food, and countless other goods and services are great. The scientists and inventors who peer deeper into the nature of the universe and devise technologies to accomplish humane, heretofore impossible feats are great. The artists who elevate the souls of those who hear their music and view their paintings are great.
But mere killing is never great, and those who carry out the killings are not great, either. No matter how much one may believe that people must sometimes commit homicide in defense of themselves and the defenseless, the killing itself is always to be deeply regretted. To take delight in killings, as so many Americans seem to have done in the past day or so, marks a person as a savage at heart. Human beings have the capacity to be better than savages. Oh that more of them would employ that capacity.
Second, anyone can see that the U.S. government will use this particular killing as evidence of its dedication to and capacity for carrying out the noble service of protecting—and, failing that, avenging the deaths of—the American people. (Never mind that trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of deaths, untold destruction of property, vast human misery, and sacrifices of essential liberties in this country went into gaining the proudly proclaimed achievement of killing a single man.) The process has already begun, with former presidents and the mainstream media adding their voices to amplify the government’s official line. Glory to the USA, glory to its hired killers, glory above all to its heroic Great Leader. The whole spectacle is profoundly disgusting. Yet we can see that many Americans have enthusiastically fallen for this trick, dancing in the streets in celebration of a man’s death in faraway Pakistan. Such unseemly behavior is not the stuff of which true greatness is made.
Tags: Culture, Defense, Imperialism, Integrity, Liberty, Military, Morality, Peace, Politics, Power, Propaganda, The State, War 
Agreed.
Andrew_M_Garland | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Not sure where to even start...agree but disagree about our servicemen and women being trashed like that..Quote “The caretakers who comfort the sick and dying are often great.” The servicemen do that more than just killing. The bad guys want you dead. Who do you want ready to take them out? You? Me? If called I would, I’m too old now 41. But would help rid this world of scum like Osama Bin Laden..rest in Hell!
matthew | May 2, 2011 | Reply
The spectacles to be seen on TV last night actually made me feel ill. But I feel much better today, knowing that civilized opinions such as Bob’s are also being voiced.
George Selgin | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Well said, Mr. Higgs.
Dither | May 2, 2011 | Reply
I agree. Everyone is all giddy because we squashed a cockroach. Osama was a creation of the U.S. Its time to leave the Middle East NOW. We should never have gone in. I also agree that we should not celebrate with jingoistic fervor the killing of an evil cockroach like bin laden. We become the rabid fanatics that he was.
Having said that, this man did kill our fellow Americans and killing him was justified. Divorced from all the political rhetoric that will accompany this killing in justification for more wars, which is also evil, this was still a good and justified act.
Javier R. | May 2, 2011 | Reply
This piece by a father of one of the 9/11 dead is very powerful and ties in perfectly with Dr Higgs article. I agree with what this man says as well.
Javier R. | May 2, 2011 | Reply
I agree with you, word by word.
Carmen Arrivillaga | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Brilliant. This expresses almost every thought I have had today.
Micah | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Maybe, but it does get rid of him.
In a time and place when and where the Internet had yet to be, I once was harassed by some local punks. My response was overwhelming armed force, in the shape of seven policemen who arrested them.
This did not stop them, not even the direct threat by a judge of their imprisonment.
Finally, Fate stepped in to help. They died in a car crash which, I was told, decapitated one.
Good riddance! Killing them got rid of them! What was all the crying about!
Tatiana Covington | May 2, 2011 | Reply
There are many bad people in the United States, not a few of them specifically protected by agents of the same US government that killed the man in Pakistan yesterday.
It would be at least as productive if some foreign country(ies) (China? Israel?) would send someone (or something) over here to kill them, if possible without destroying our economy and society, and killing thousands of previously uninvolved people in the process.
Or, maybe they already are, except their victims so far have not been any of the ones I had in mind.
N. Joseph Potts | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Dr. Higgs,
President Obama said many objectionable things in his speech and you’ve covered many of my objections, however I’d like to hear more about your dislike of the phrase, “the greatness of our country.”
I think a country can be great. Can’t it? For example, I think Apple Computer is a great company and I once played for a great high school basketball team. Greatness can be measured in a company’s profits or a team’s record. What’s your reaction to this?
A sports team and a company are abstractions in the same way that a country is an abstraction correct?
Scott
Scott G | May 2, 2011 | Reply
I must say I enjoyed the read but do not agree that a country can not be great. As a whole we are a noble country, noble and good. America is GREAT because of her people, the very people who give more then anyone in the world, the very people who helped bring down Hitler and his Natzi pals who were evil monstrous animals. I can say Germany was an evil country during Hitlers raign, so I can say America is great today for keeping their promise to get JUSTICE for the dead.
Theresa | May 2, 2011 | Reply
What bothered me the most in the speech was the following:
“The American people did not choose this fight. It came to our shores, and started with the senseless slaughter of our citizens.”
B | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Great article. Totally agree.
Manuel Álvarez | May 2, 2011 | Reply
“But mere killing is never great, and those who carry out the killings are not great, either. No matter how much one may believe that people must sometimes commit homicide in defense of themselves and the defenseless, the killing itself is always to be deeply regretted. ”
The only reason you can write such vitriol is because of the people who are willing to risk their lives, and yes, get blood on their hands and live with it so people like you don’t have to, yet still reap the rewards. How dare you belittle their sacrifice? Is it tacky and shameful for people to celebrate? Yes. But, for you to belittle the sacrifices of military personal willing to die in defense of your right to do so is shameful, too.
On a side-note, you even suggest that killing in self-defense is murder. Sorry, but if someone threatens my family and I have to choose between their life and my child’s life, whose blood do you think I’d rather have on my hand? I’m going to be responsible for someone’s death one way or another. Better it be the aggressor than my own children I brought into this world with an unspoken promise to protect.
I’m sure you had good intentions when you wrote this article but your efforts to encourage reverence and thoughtful reflection were thwarted by your own lack of reverence for the military. You don’t even know their names, yet you are so quick to judge them and assume you know how they are feeling based on the actions of a few people who are as far removed from the ugliness as you are yourself sitting behind the safety of your computer.
Quoting a fictitious character doesn’t do much for your credibility either. You would have been better served quoting a real person like MLK or Gandhi, but apparently your world view comes from silly Hollywood movies.
In fact, let me help you out, ”I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
He made the same point far more succinctly and eloquently than you did, and he did so without degrading or insulting others. Ironically, your post projects the same hate he spoke against.
Allie | May 2, 2011 | Reply
The objections are very right but what about the killings that Osama and his team have taken pride and pleasure in? I am not, even for a second, supporting or endorsing ANY of his ideologies or acts but it is a simple question to clarify why you have forgotten to mention those when you have pin pointed on the American angle.
Neil | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Mr. Robert Higgs:
This quote, “today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people”, is purely subjective. Therefore, this will resonate for those individuals who believe this. To be great can be less than good. Good is a much loftier goal to strive for, than to seek death and wanton destruction of people(s) and our planet.
Unfortunately, there is more power in being great than there is in being good.
Thanking you for your interest in this matter.
James deLaurier | May 2, 2011 | Reply
When a few thousands of people were killed by Sept 11 attack, he was labeled as World Terrorist......
When 200 thousand children alone were killed in Iraq, who is to be labeled most wanted criminal and terrorist?
It has become a practice in world today that if any American was injured it is addressed as a world-wide problem. If thousands are killed by Americans wherever like in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc., it is addressed as victory of the world of justice.
What an illogical action by non-logical people.
Face of post-modern imperialism is worst to be seen...it’s too dirty.....that’s what Americans do.......
Dr. Biju Vincent | May 2, 2011 | Reply
Extremely well presented Scott. Even though I don’t disagree with all that Dr. Higgs says, and I do admit he has some good points, he seems like way too sanctimonious and out of touch with reality.
rrb1952 | May 2, 2011 | Reply
I think what is really stuck in Mr. Higgs’s craw is the celebration of a mans death. Mine too!
I believe his understanding what makes a country is incorrect. What makes a country is its people. And what really makes a great country, again would be its people, their actions and the leaders we choose.
In his third paragraph, he mentions all the things that make people great. What makes a country great is what it has and can do for other people of the world. Such as supporting people who seek the very ideals that we as Americans cherish, freedom liberty and the right to determine our own destiny.
Perhaps, Mr. Obama began his election campaign using this event to garner much needed votes, and maybe it was tacky the way he delivered the news to the world. However, it is done and now you can only reflect on the man and not the country.
Mr. Potts, what makes you so sure agents of other countries have not been here to do their dirty deeds and why would they go after someone of interest to you?
Brian A | May 2, 2011 | Reply
To Scott,
A country can be great in some respects, such as Malaysia has great food, great jungles and great ‘buntut buntut’...
However you cannot lump its entirety into greatness, for one also has to look at what else it is. It is indeed just too abstract for that.
Yes, Apple make some great products—if we ignore that most of them are made or their parts made in China and Japan. Even then we can point to the company’s goals, intentions, general attitude and so on with far more precision than any country. Partly because they’re much smaller, partly because they are more directly controlled as a deliberate entity that seeks to please the consumer above all else. That’s the market for you.
If you want to call America great you have to consider killing off the natives great, you have to accept that dishonoring countless treaties is great, that the Mexican war was great, as was the disgusting invasion of the Philippines, the fiasco of Vietnam etc etc.
You’d have to conclude that every rapist, serial killer and the other low-lifes of America are great. You’ve have to assume that a high population percentage being overly fat or in prison (or both) is great. You’d have to accept Sarah Palin and Al Gore as great people...
There’s just too much to lump it all under the heading of ‘America’ and then call it much of anything. Further, to what extent did the ‘great people’ of America do squat concerning OBL? Most actually get more from the government than they pay in taxes, so the majority cannot even be credited with financing the operation, an operation that failed miserably at defending Americans and American buildings and then failed to find the main suspect for over 10 freakin’ years.
Which bit are we supposed to clap, their tax returns?
That they were dumb enough to cheer invading Iraq, killing countless children and innocent adults and wrecking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11?
Many protested the wars, and found themselves confined to ‘free speech cages’ (you couldn’t make it up!) Is that ‘great’?
Tell us Scott, which party of ‘America’ is ‘great’, apart from the hypocrisy?
Insurance-nut | May 2, 2011 | Reply
The cause for which the killing executed is worth Appreciation.
Chi
Chirag | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Not agree. Mahesh Bhatt is having a sick ideology and he is not able to see the world as it is. Bin Laden is not a person, he was a threat to the peace of the world. So killing him for peace indicate greatness of the country and humanity also.
manoj | May 3, 2011 | Reply
“To take delight in killings, as so many Americans seem to have done in the past day or so, marks a person as a savage at heart.”
This one sentence encapsulates why the oft-heralded celebrating was so revolting. It’s all the more disturbing to think there is a good chance most of those cheering would classify themselves as Christian.
E. Harris | May 3, 2011 | Reply
No any other country has dared to kill any terrorist in Pakistan (even India because of dirty politicians) so whatever America has done is really great. You should go to kill Daud (don) in Pakistan if you are great than America...HA...Ha...
raju | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Yes, “the greatness of our country...” What a joke!
*I* object to criminal wars– therefore, this is not *my* country
*I* object to vengeful killing– therefore, this is not *my* country
*I* object to torture, *I* object to rendition, etc..
Those who would say “if you don’t like it, then can you leave,” you can kiss my ass. I’m not moving anywhere. I am a human being born in a place that some other people call America. I am *not* obligated to any such fiction or fairy tale.
But to humor the ones above who do believe such, I must ask, does your “great country” include the poor who are here? The murderers? The racists? The child molesters? The atheists? The Islamics? The Jews? Is it ALL inclusive? Just so you know, it MUST be, for your reasoning to be sound.
My guess is that you never even reasoned that far because if you had then you’d realize there is no *we* or *our.*
certainquirk | May 3, 2011 | Reply
“The servicemen do that more than just killing. The bad guys want you dead.”
Those bad guys wouldn’t want you dead if you didn’t travel half-way across the planet to kill them for no good reason.
brainfan | May 3, 2011 | Reply
What is so great about Apple Computer?
brainfan | May 3, 2011 | Reply
America is responsible for the deaths of millions of people and has deliberately sown strife throughout the world for decades. There are many Americans who object to this behavior. There is the bad and there is the good. There was also bad and good during Hitler’s reign. This is what he means by national greatness being an abstraction.
brainfan | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Mahesh Ji, I do not agree with you.
kaliram tomar | May 3, 2011 | Reply
I wholeheartedly agree as I was sickened by the blatant and ignorant (savage) celebration of the killing of a man, the taking of a life. Perhaps if Americans displayed equal emotion about the slaughter of innocents at weddings, funerals, boys collecting firewood, then it might be more understandable or acceptable—the loss of those lives mean nothing to folks in the U.S., but the murder of Osama the bogeyman is regarded as some wonderful victory. I am ashamed of my countrymen as they have brought dishonor upon our once great nation and have bared their souls to God for what they are—savages.
Phillip Sigeweald | May 3, 2011 | Reply
It seems the Media all over the world are going ga ga over the America’s Hollywood inspired killing of Taliban leader Osama Bin Laden.
What I fail to understand is if the elite Navy Seals of the US government were so good & they had so much information & leads on Osama then why did they not capture him alive.
What was the need to Kill him? Reports suggest he was shot in head, why was there no attempt to capture him?
Americans have always justified killings, lets not forget Saddam Hussein who was hanged and his video deliberately leaked.
The American society with its pro gun culture seems to love blood & the government cleverly uses situation it to its own advantage.
As they say... What you Sow is what you Reap...
Now that both Saddam & Osama are dead who Next?
I am sure the White House already has a script ready for the next blockbuster.
Tejash Doshi | May 3, 2011 | Reply
(1) Thank goodness there are Americans like Dr. Higgs who are not caught up in this orgy of self congratulation.
(2) There is a real danger here. after Hitler had improved economic conditions in Germany, and had successfully defied Franc and Britain when he marched his Army into the Rhineland and then was able to bring austria into union with Germany he was immensley popular with most Germans. they felt Germany had regained respect. But all these successes and the euphoria it generated led Germany into disaster. I hear echos of this in the euphoria that has taken possession of the media, the commentators and the public. I hear President Obama now being constatly referred to as our commander-in-chief, and that he has now become a great leader.
(3) Nota bene americans will still have to be x-rayed or invasively patted down, even six yearold girls, before they can get on an airplane. So much for the death of Osama bin Laden making us safer.
(4) Those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks rejoice over Osama Bin Laden’s death. We undersstand this. but do we understand why those who have their loved ones destroyed by American bombs might rejoice at the death of americans?
(5) I have always maintained that we needed to kill Osama bin Laden for what he did. But I am not going to crow about us or chant U.S.A. mindlessly. Our problems remain.
Robert Charron | May 3, 2011 | Reply
While I agree that it should not be pleasurable to kill, that is possible only when it can be prevented. In these cases, not killing the accused amounts to agreeing that what he/she has done is right, or at least not bad enough to be killed for. And in my dictionary, killing 5,000 people is definitely not right. I actually wish there could be something more than death. The concept of death for one murder and death for any number of murders is somewhat not what I can digest.
Sireesh | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Comments here prove the point: Americans are hopelessly mired in collectivist thinking. It’s “Us vs. Them,” not “the state vs. me and mine.” Sad. The wars will never end until the state, and probably each one of us, is bankrupt or worse.
mikehell | May 3, 2011 | Reply
To build something, be it a building, a service to help humanity or a loving relationship takes courage, creativity and energy. But to destroy something or kill something be it an animal or a person takes no courage, creativity or energy. What you give out is what you get back.
Florence | May 3, 2011 | Reply
My thoughts, but expressed even better.{ Great as in “great balls of fire”, a common expression in my long-gone youth.}
ralph | May 3, 2011 | Reply
No, actually, that’s correct. According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History, history began on September 11, 2001.
Tom Harvey | May 3, 2011 | Reply
[hmmm, thought my comment would appear as a threaded reply to "B". again, with the context]
‘What bothered me the most in the speech was the following:
“The American people did not choose this fight. It came to our shores, and started with the senseless slaughter of our citizens.”’
No, actually, that’s correct. According to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History, history began on September 11, 2001.
Tom Harvey | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Dr. Higgs is not only correct, but he possesses true wisdom. Rejoicing over anyone’s death is folly, resulting in unforeseen consequences to the rejoicer.
Prov. 24:17: Do not rejoice when your enemy falls, And do not let your heart be glad when he stumbles; 18: Or the LORD will see it and be displeased, And turn His anger away from him.
Jared | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Regarding,
and the response,
I’d like to think there is some middle ground here.
Was OBL intending to do more large scale destruction? I’d say it was pretty much true. Do people have a right to self defense in this case? I suppose you could argue you have to wait until they try. Problem is in some cases that is too late. So, is killing somebody like OBL a bad thing? I think not.
But at the same time it is not a great thing. And our service men should not be showered with glory. Tell them they did a good job, and that is it.
And for God’s sake stop dancing in the streets like it is a party.
Steve Verdon | May 3, 2011 | Reply
I couldn’t agree more, Dr. Higgs. People are rejoicing the death of someone whom they are not even sure was responsible for 9/11. Surely Osama was not an innocent, but he deserved a jury trial like any of us. How wonderful that we celebrate government murder while thousands are killed overseas, our bankruptcy is secured, and our women and children here are being molested and then verbally/mentally abused for rejecting this sort of treatment. Yet there is no broad and powerful rejection from the people, no matter how high the disapproval polls move,or how hopeless and despairing that we become. They don’t realize the strength in simply withdrawing their consent and their obedience. Surely we would suffer short-term;we are suffering anyway. I believe our future could be much brighter if the people would only change their minds.
bill sinnott | May 3, 2011 | Reply
You say a country can’t be great, and then you enumerate a laundry list of human greatnesses.
How about a country that encourages, enables, and rewards all those forms of human greatness far better than most? Better yet, how about a country that does all that, and then strives to allow people (great or non-great) live their lives as they see fit, provided they don’t kick anybody else around in the process? And maybe even a country which provides a framework to correct its own errors and failings when it doesn’t live up to all that?
Of course, no nation, no human being, could ever be as great as Dr. Higgs. He’s the standard by which the rest of the universe is judged. He’s better than anybody or anything.
And that’s why we should be so humbly grateful when you take the time to tell us what crap we are. FOAD, you posturing, self-congratulatory little pinprick.
asdf | May 3, 2011 | Reply
I’m perplexed at the jubilation. If one had a business that was fighting for market share and not only was the market wrecked, but during the battle you killed most of your best salesmen, killed the families of the opposition firm, repeatedly broke the law and tortured rival salesman, real or imagined, changed CEO’s only to get one even horribly worse than the last, THEN you capture market share after 10 years of conflict, trillions in debt, and the founding vision of your company destroyed.
Victory? If this is victory, I’ll take early retirement!
There is nothing great about this political stunt, and how nice it is that habeas corpus STILL hasn’t been established, in fact, it is a farce of monumentally tragic proportions.
Robert | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Well I still think Osama needed killin! Anyone who was devious enough to figure out a way to fly two drones into skyscrapers ready to be demolished with thermite, hit the pentagon with a missle, crash another drone into a field in Pennsylvania, and still demolish a third building, WTC-7 and keep that one a secret from just about everyone for years, needed killin!
Jerry | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Stange that bin Laden always denied involvement with 911 except for a couple of VCR tapes our military “found”. He was however responsible for the deaths of many Russian soldiers. The “evil” persona appears to be more of a Madison Ave ad campaign than reality. I really doubt if there really was enough evidence to get a conviction for 911. That said, American dancing around in front of the White House acting like a bunch of barbarians is pretty shameful. Perhaps good for votes by the non thinking majority, but not representative of my feelings. Death of anyone should never be an occassion for celebration. Worse yet, this death looks more like an execution. And my life will be effected how again?
Al Sledge | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not tell falsehoods.
Please America immediately take down the 10 Commandments from all the walls of public places because you no longer think them to be useful. And if American behavior in the greater world is founded upon Jesus’s teachings, you all fail the test.
JDonald | May 3, 2011 | Reply
So Obama watches live as Osama suffers a fatal head wound, and the crowd cheers and loves death. “Any one who loves peace and human dignity will welcome this” says Obama.
“I saw that one of its heads seemed to have had a fatal wound but that this deadly injury had healed and, after that, the whole world had marveled and followed the beast.”
—Revelation 13:3
If you love peace and human dignity this is what you will welcome.
“But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. To the man who slaps you on one cheek, present the other cheek too.”
—Luke 6:27-28
Richard | May 3, 2011 | Reply
Mr. Higgs makes the case perfectly. While I believe Bin Laden deserved to die, I definitely do not take delight in the death.
Regarding the greatness of countries, a few points need to be addressed. First, greatness is subjective. Second, there are three concepts that are often conflated with one another: (1) society, which is the accumulation of all voluntary interactions of individuals; (2) the state, which is a band of criminals that rules over people; and (3) a country, which is a plot of land on which people live, and which has a popularly-accepted name.
Regards,
Alex Peak
Alexander S. Peak | May 4, 2011 | Reply
The Army’s purpose is to kill—nothing more. They aren’t doing great things, they’re following f****** orders. hooray for you who’s managed to miss the entire message of this piece. That killing in and of itself—while we may debate the necessity of it in some circumstances—is not cause for celebration or greatness. If you can’t see that then you are just one more amongst the mindless mob chanting “USA USA”. And I’ll bet you’re proud of that fact too.
Guest | May 4, 2011 | Reply
“I couldn’t agree more, Dr. Higgs. People are rejoicing the death of someone whom they are not even sure was responsible for 9/11.”
The FBI’s not sure either:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten
(notice anything missing?)
Guest | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Robert Higgs is great!
Scott Frost | May 4, 2011 | Reply
The assassination of bin Laden will not erase the damage this nation has done in the name of vengeance.
I wish every single American could see the names and faces of the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghans that have been killed in their name since 9/11.
The only thing America could do now to begin to repair the irreparable damage it has done, would be to end the ‘War on Terror’ and return to a time when we didn’t use the military and killing as an answer to every international disagreement.
Solon | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Yes, but who gets to say who the “bad guys” are? Bin Laden was once a good guy, working with the US to rid Afghanistan of the Soviets. Saddam Hussein was once a good guy. The point is, politicians are playing a game of musical dictators–whoever suits their purpose at the moment is a good guy, no matter how many people he slaughters. The morality of a nation cannot be based on expediency or situational ethics.
Donna | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I believe your analogies are incorrect. A country is merely a land mass surrounded by borders...and therefore, an abstraction. Within those borders are citizens pursuing their own interests and individual prosperity (if the country is free). Successful companies or sports teams are organizations made up of individual members collectively pursuing the specific interests of those organizations. To think of our country as a collective organization—not as an abstraction but as a groupthink collective—is to consider the government as being tantamount to our country, which it is not...yet! If we ever devolve into a collective—groupthinking as one—then we will have finally reached the depths of the abyss at the bottom of that cliched ‘slippery slope.’ That’s the stuff of Nazi Germany and Bolshevik Russia.
DJ | May 4, 2011 | Reply
My previous comment was supposed to be in reply to Scott G. It appears to have come up as a separate comment.
DJ | May 4, 2011 | Reply
My problem is with the President’s quote, “Justice has been done.” If you are older than twenty, you know, that unless you are Geo. W. Bush, Justice...is to be served. There is a process, and all are presumed innocent, until proven guilty. Those not trained to avoid jury duty, are taught, that before a trial you DO know if the individual is “innocent” or “guilty”. It is INNOCENT, until, and only IF the State makes its case. And while this makes the process more tedious, more difficult, it is because we KNOW that the ways of man are fallible, and that we too would be guilty, if we rushed Justice, and “hung an innocent man”.
This is AMERICA....we don’t “DO” Justice.
We serve it.
CHUCKtheFED | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I have lived too long. I recall in the early days of the NFL when a player scored a touchdown, they just handed the ball to the ref and trotted back onto the field. don Hutson of the Green Bay Packers was a prolific scorer but I never saw him strut around after scoring a touchdown. Now when a player scores a touchdown, they go into macabre dances and crow about it. Actually now they do a dance even after making routine tackles. Barry Sanders was a class act and never made a big deal when he scored a touchdown. I think it is a reflection on our national character that we have become so boastful and so full of ourselves. The behavior of many Americans from top to bottom exemplifies this in my mind. It was essential that we execute Bin Laden for what he did and as he was a symbol, but then to go around screaming U.S.A., U.S.A all night over his execution is a bit disturbing to me.
Robert Charron | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Mark Twain said it best: I never wished any man dead but read many obituaries with great satisfaction.
Taking no prisoners can be good when dealing with murderous criminals and bad when trying to rescue hostages.
Benjacomin Bozart | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I find it extremely distasteful and wrong for any nation to celebrate a man’s death. Moreover, the FBI contends that OBL cannot be connected to 9-11 and there has been no evidence linking him to any other crime or terrorist action. We are Americans and we deserve to see the evidence, if any exist, against Osama. Therefore, for what reason was he allegedly killed??
Cold Wind | May 4, 2011 | Reply
You are 100% in stating- “Osama was a creation of the U.S.” It’s a classic case of CIA/Government “Blow-Back.” Once he had driven the Russian out of Afghanistan, he turned the guns and even training we provided, back on his enablers.
I guess Rumsfeld would have referred to it as a “unknown unknown.”
Benson | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I’m now more certain that a country can be great.
One country can be greater than others. For example, when an individual makes a decision to live in one country versus another, he makes that decision based on some ranking system unique to himself. The final decision of where to live is based on his feelings of which country is best (greatest) for him.
Governments are like businesses in that they compete for customers. For example, the Soviet Union lost many customers due to defections. America gains customers due to immigrants.
The fundamental idea behind the Seasteading Institute is that governments will provide better service to their customers if individuals have more choices to vote with their feet. The Seasteading movement aims to create more and better countries on the ocean.
Countries can be great.
I choose to live in America because I believe that it is the best country for me to live in. I can offer you no better evidence that America is greater than other countries than by pointing you to the evidence of where I make my home.
I use best and greatest interchangeably.
America is the best country (given the options at the present time) for me.
Scott G | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Thank you for putting into words my discomfort in witnessing the week’s unseemly celebrations!
Alice | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I don’t understand why there hasn’t been a single attempt throughout this article to define greatness. As Socrates said, we better agree on our terms before we begin. Wikipedia states greatness as:
Under this definition, maybe if we agree that “better than all others” means “can best them in battle” and don’t take “all others” too strictly, then it sounds like the abstract concept of “The USA” can be said to be great. It certainly has demonstrated a “perceivable advantage” to Al Qaeda (though that wasn’t hard, especially with the disparity in resources expended).
Then again, I can’t help but agree with Higgs that the concept of a a “country” being great seems a little odd. It’s a bit too tribal for my tastes to describe something as abstract as a country as good, bad, smart, or a number of other adjectives. A state is an abstraction, and it’s abstract enough that we should probably be more suspicious when people use these terms in such a context than we are.
And Scott, I agree that your decision to live in the US is made because it is the best choice you could make for yourself. A lot of that however may be accidental. You happened to be born here, and you happened to develop networks, friends, a cultural connection, family, and all others sorts of intangible connections to this place that you would’ve instead developed to, say, Australia or Germany or such otherwise. Thus there is a benefit you derive from being in the US that you don’t derive from being anywhere else by mere virtue of the fact that you happened to have been born here and thus the connections were made here. Thus the preference for living here might make the US a great place to live for you, but it may have no baring on whether the US is a great place to live for anyone else.
Then again, a lot of people do choose to immigrate to this country over a lot of other countries (when they are given the option).
Max M | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Well Matt, if our supposed constitutional republic remains the way it is Then one day our Noble soldiers (heroes as the news media calls them) might be coming after you and me.
jon | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Yeah, everyone with a little knowledge of history knows that It didn’t start with 9/11!
And this is just a humble question from Norway and I really(!) doesn’t want to generalize all of You Americans because I know that many of you aren’t like the ones I direct my question too, but: Why does so many people in the USA have all off these opinions about things they really know NOTHING about. Maybe some from Fox news or something but what about getting some info and knowledge about things that concerns them BEFORE You decide what you really mean! Knowledge is everything and to get good knowledge you need to be able to see things from different views before they decide what they mean! get the point?
Ole from oslo/norway
ole | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I apologize for my bad grammar above!
ole | May 4, 2011 | Reply
I agree completely. I made me sick to my stomach to hear the words “justice” and “kill” in the same sentence. Summary murder without trial is not justice. The killers the US sends to do this and many other similar tasks are not “great” but savage barbarians along with those who send them.
If this is the way one needs to be “protected”, then I choose not to be “protected”.
It now turns out, as one could hear “between the lines” in the president’s announcement, that Bin Ladin was captured alive and then summarily murdered.
As a child who grew up with the likes of the fire bombing of Dresden, I wondered how the goths who invaded from the east in ancient history could be named The Barbarians by the history books as if that were their essence whereas the Romans and bombers of Dresden were civilized. The savagery of one country does not make the savagery of another country any less.
It seems true that individual people, or perhaps small groups, can be great. My life experience tells me that it is highly unlikely that a whole country could be great.
Finally, the dumping of the body at sea seemed a totally barbarian act, an act based on vengeance and the desire to desecrate and totally dismissive of any human values based on the essential dignity of man.
Thomas | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Just a thought, Killing Bin Ladin prevents him from making any potentially embarrassing comments at a trial. Was that the motive? No doubt many people will begin to ask such questions.
Bjorn 90 | May 4, 2011 | Reply
“If there is not the war, you don’t get the great general; if there is not a great occasion, you don’t get a great statesman; if Lincoln had lived in a time of peace, no one would have known his name.”—Theodore Roosevelt
Just when you think that reverence for war and the peace and prosperity it brings is passé comes this affirmation of the American spirit!
America’s right to strike dead its enemies regardless where in the world they hide is again confirmed. Since when do you need trials, lawyers, “rights” and due process to mete out justice? Dead men tell no tales.
Emmanuel Goldstein | May 4, 2011 | Reply
E. F. Schumacher noted that we inherit our most fundamental ideas in a “dark ages” of the mind around which we insert new prejudices. (Besides the fact that a country is an abstraction) thinking that America is “great” is simply never to have read much about the treatment of the Native Americans, massacres of Philipinos, invasions of Haiti and the Dominican Republic or any number of dark chapters in American history. It is by virtue of denial and miseducation that people won’t examine the relationship between the many Bin Ladens of the world and American foreign policy.
Fin MacDonald | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Someone wrote “America is responsible for the deaths of millions of people and has deliberately sown strife throughout the world for decades.”
I could be wrong, but I believe that this nation would still have to deal with fanatical Islamacists intent on imposing Sharia Law even if the above were not true.
Roland D. | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Dr. Higgs,
If you imagine yourself in your ideal utopian world, what would you say about that place after having had the best experience of your life there?
Wouldn’t you loudly say with a terrific smile, “this is the greatest place!”
And isn’t there some place in between America and your ideal utopia that you would agree is a great country? Call it WayBetterThanAmerica.
I have a feeling that you would not call WayBetterThanAmerica great for very long. I’m not sure that I would either.
Why is it that I would call my ideal utopian world the greatest place, but not call WayBetterThanAmerica the greatest place?
That’s somewhat scary to me.
Scott
Scott G | May 4, 2011 | Reply
Hear, hear!
Sheldon Richman | May 5, 2011 | Reply
Here Is Why Osama Bin Laden Was Unarmed!
Osama Bin Laden had no fear of becoming a martyr and so why should he arm himself or even defend himself?
Ten years and trillions of dollars wasted and millions of people around the world driven to hate what America stands for – Bin Laden was glad to die for that. Exhausted and morally bankrupt soldiers, separated from their homeland and their families and friends, and many dead or injured U.S. soldiers sent to fight unconstitutional wars – Bin Laden was glad to die for that.
According to the unConstitutional coup in the United States this execution of Osama Bin Laden was a victory! United States is bankrupt and all the crazed nationalistic celebrating by the propagandized citizens only serves to encourage the imperialists and their foolish politician puppets to expand the wars even more!
Is the stupidity of the economic terrorists of the unConstitutional coup so monumental that they, indeed, make Osama Bin Laden a martyr – by fulfilling every goal of undermining America that Bin Laden had, and that he clearly stated?
Bruce Koerber | May 5, 2011 | Reply
and bin laden did this? he should have been captured and interrogated as to how metal fused, leaving paper intact. a lost opportunity for the physical sciences.
http://is.gd/pfPgHK
newson | May 7, 2011 | Reply
That’s called anarchy!
ole | May 7, 2011 | Reply
I was sicklike in the stomach from all the applause for killing Osama Bin Laden.
Most folks seemed to have reasons for justifying his killing.
Osama was doing that when he killed, too.
Let’s not come up with a reason to bump somebody off.
Duane Walter | May 9, 2011 | Reply
As far as killing of Osama is concerned. As the report says from the newspaper still he was making plans to attack the USA and other countries.
So, it’s good the he got killed by the USA.
manufacturers of chlorine tablets | May 23, 2011 | Reply
American soldiers are not supposed to be assassins; murderers. Killing is often the reasonably unavoidable result of applying the force necessary to neutralize a threat. It is never to be the object. If bin Laden could not be captured alive and brought to trial, where his wickedness could be dealt with in a proper manner, without unduly risking the lives of those sent to capture him, then so be it.
If assassination had been the only object, do the naysayers not think that the USA could have taken him out with a cruise missile? The house was large and separated from those around it. The only “collateral damage” likely would have been his personal associates. And that’s a risk one takes by being around such a person.
Al | Nov 21, 2011 | Reply
Please tell me where I can go that is a better place than the USA – that will let me in (I don’t have $250,000 to invest). I don’t know of any. At the worst, I’d rather be behind the US’ cannon than out in front of them.
I once thought maybe Switzerland, where my wife’s immigrant ancestors came from, but now I’m not as impressed. Many places are attractive if I was wealthy, but...
Al | Nov 21, 2011 | Reply
No, the People didn’t choose this fight. It was the US Gov’t. and corporate interests. The Arabs-Muslims do not like having US and allied troops occupying their lands – not only their political nations but “Greater Arabia” or “Greater Islamia.” However, various pressures will probably eventually result in a direct clash between the Arab/Muslim nations and business interests and the US/allied interests. So, I prefer the clash to take place in THEIR countries rather than MINE. Selfish, yes.
Al | Nov 21, 2011 | Reply
Sooner or later.
Al | Nov 21, 2011 | Reply